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03-28-2005
posted by
Cutter
This is Round 2 of the thread that began over a year ago under the title
of "Can this Vise be Saved?" It soon became "Cutter's Vise" for all
general purposes so that's what I'll call it here. Many of you have asked,
prodded and reminded me about it from time to time. I have usually
replied, "Manana." I haven't had time, energy or the heart to wrestle with
it; okay, okay, here's the truth - I am too lazy to sit here for hours
re-entering the (nearly) 400 posts that constituted the thread, plus the
pictures. Can you imagine how long that would take? I can't either. But I
know for sure that I did not want to do it that way. So there had to be a
some other way; I wanted the new members unfamiliar with the original
thread to know what they heck we are talking about and even we charter
members might need a refresher course, but I have no motivation to direct
traffic to the old site. So the thread had to be established somewhere
else but again, I lacked the skills and the proper motivation to do it.
Well, the obvious solution to the problem was to find a woman to do it!
(There will now be a short intermission to allow the sound of flying
objects to subside.)
You can discover who when you read the Prologue. But let me say this: she
has worked very hard for a long time to bring the Vise back to life. Not
many of our members could have done it, probably no one else would have
done it and I am profoundly grateful to her.
I want to make this very clear - I am not trying to divert traffic from
SFT. I am using my website to direct traffic to SFT and to supplement our
server.
So the thread now resides on my website where all and any of you can go to
read it in it's entirety with few exceptions (see the Prologue). It is not
an active thread, it is only the interrupted discussion we had between
February & June of last 2004, before the Mad Banner ran amok. This is the
active thread & all comments and discussion will resume here. I hope we
can all have as much fun as we did with Round 1 and this time, I hope we
can find a way to save Cutter's Vise. I look forward to all of your
comments and suggestions.
Follow this link to my homepage, see Cutter's Vise and click on the
Prologue.
cutterod
__________________
cutter
03-28-2005
posted by Scott V
Cutter your links on your page throws me off and kills my Firefox browser.
I have DSL so it is not a big deal.
I wonder if it is by design?
03-28-2005
posted by Franz
AND, once again, this famous vise saga is sponsored by Uncle Franz Secret
Labs, where you can buy your electrolytic derusting supplys.
For Texas and Arizona members, Cutter is a distributor for Uncle Franz
Secret Products, so you can save on shipping.
03-28-2005
posted by
Cutter
Quote: Originally Posted by Scott V
Cutter your links on your page throws me off and kills my Firefox browser.
I have DSL so it is not a big deal.
I wonder if it is by design?
LOL, nope. But I thought Firefox was bullet proof?
Jeez, I've had at least a dozen different computers & connections test the
links. I wonder what that's all about? What happens if you c&p the
address?
Edit: Hmmm, I just opened a Firefox page and went straight to the
homepage, then to the prologue without a hitch. So now I wonder if its
maybe some kinda of anti-Texas routine running in your browser?
__________________
cutter
03-28-2005
posted by dirtdigger
scott,
I have firefox and DSL and had no problem viewing cutters site. hmmm.
perplexing to say the least.
__________________
I used to get in trouble for playing in the mud...........now I get paid
for it!
at this rate, I'll never hit 1,000 posts.
There are three kinds of men:
The one that learns by reading.
The few who learn by observation.
The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.
03-28-2005
posted by Scott V
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[What happens if you c&p the address?]
Same thing.
I do like what it does to my MSN IE!!
It locks it up solid. I guess firefox still beats it!!!
03-28-2005
posted by rickairmedic
Scott I don't have any probs here with DSL and wonderful MSN IE can even
see martha in all her glory
Rick
03-28-2005
posted by MikeLMR
another top thread (and more hours lost to reading stuff on the net )
the idea of the grease nipples (zerks I think you called them) made me
think if its possible to turn the vice itself into a hydraulic cylinder
and force itself appart by pressurising it via a grease nipple. I don't
think the design of this vice would lend itself to that though.
03-28-2005
posted by rodburner
no problem with firefox here either glad to see the vise backonline,good
web page ya got going cutter.
__________________
Billy
03-28-2005
posted by grumpy
Yes cutter the website looks good. I'm jealous. Guess I'll have my kid
build me one.
03-28-2005
posted by arcdawg
bravo on the web site !!!
gotta love that new martha show !
dawg
03-28-2005
posted by
Cutter
Thanks guys. I'm hoping we can get all the new members involved now.
I had even been dreaming about that danged vise. I dreamed that the diesel
soak actually did its job & I was able to jack it open without any more
trouble.
But I must emphasize - that was a dream.
After everyone has had a chance to read up to date, we'll give that girl
another twirl, as Rock always says.
__________________
cutter
03-28-2005
posted by boilerman
but, but ,but if the diesel does the job...the saga will be over
__________________
Director of Recruitment, Overseas (by appointment)
I don't suffer from insanity...I enjoy every minute of it
03-28-2005
posted by tackit
Quote: Originally Posted by MikeLMR
another top thread (and more hours lost to reading stuff on the net )
the idea of the grease nipples (zerks I think you called them) made me
think if its possible to turn the vice itself into a hydraulic cylinder
and force itself apart by pressurizing it via a grease nipple. I don't
think the design of this vice would lend itself to that though.
I have a saftey tip concerning the pressurizing of grease zirks,
especially stuck ones.
A master mechanic once told me a story about a mechanic that was having
problems with a zerk taking on grease. He said this mechanic failed to
consider another zirk maybe hidden close by and aimed at him, as he worked
the plugged zerk the pressure finally was enough to free up the zerk but
there was enough build up that when it freed up it blew out the other zerk
aimed at his head and killed the guy deader than a door knob.
Just though I would pass this story on for those that may never have heard
about this danger before.
03-29-2005
posted by
Cutter
Good grief! I think I can plan around that now that you've posted the
warning. Thanks.
__________________
cutter
03-29-2005
posted by madam X
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote: Originally Posted by cutter
I had even been dreaming about that danged vise. I dreamed that the diesel
soak actually did its job & I was able to jack it open without any more
trouble.
But I must emphasize - that was a dream.
So was the ninth season of Dallas
__________________
madam X - Site Empress for Life
Director of Policy, Inane Matters (by appointment)
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc
Now go kill something for me
03-29-2005
posted by river1
cutter awesome vice you have there
have you tried molasses to remove the rust?
here's a good thread on Cast & ordinary iron restoration describing the
process
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.co...ead.php?t=11301
later jim
03-29-2005
posted by
Cutter
Moleasses
To tell the truth River, I had read about using molasses last year but I
just didn't want to go buy 5 gallons of it & then have to clean up that
mess too. As far as surface rust goes, I just about had that whipped & I
couldn't bring myself to believe molasses would penetrate the close
tolerances involved inside the old vise.
__________________
cutter
03-29-2005
posted by bgott
You know, I have given that thing a lot of thought since I linked to it
forever and a day ago. If I remember right (hey, I could go refresh my
memory but that would be too easy!) the method you were using would seem
to put the moveable jaw in a bind when you put a strain on it. I was
thinking that you might try blowing some holes in your new welding table (
you can weld the holes up later, that's what welding tables are for!) and
bolting the vice to the table with the jaw facing down the long edge of
the table. Then you would need to mount a heavy L- shaped bracket to the
table with the flat facing the vice. The bracket will need to have a hole
in it that lines up with the center of the vice jaw and be mounted far
enough away that the jaw has room to move. I have used other objects
besides a bracket, it just has to be able to be bolted or welded down
solidly and have the hole for the pull rod lined up close to exactly with
the object to be pulled. You will then need a joint of Acme threaded rod,
or all thread, that will fit through the moveable jaw and the bracket. It
will need to protrude far enough through each to fit a thrust washer or
bearing and a nut. The thrust washer on the jaw side will obviously have
to fit through the fixed jaw without pulling through the moveable jaw.
That in itself might complicate things, you might have to get a thick
piece of metal machined to size to get the maximum contact and not jam.
Once you get this puller rigged up you can start tightening the nut at the
bracket. I would whack the moveable jaw with a hammer up and down and side
to side during the pulling process to relieve any tendency the jaw has to
bind due to uneven build- ups of rust and gunk hanging up at various
points down the tube. You might even need to use the rosebud. If you get a
really healthy strain on it it stands a chance of breaking something so
plan on re- designing your puller once or twice during the removal
process. This just adds to the fun and will help get your post count up.
However, I have fought stuff like this and then figured out a way to get a
straight, even pull and had it slide right out. Good Luck!
03-29-2005
posted by 7018
Its good to see this thing up and running again! I hope it brakes free and
you get to use it...
03-29-2005
posted by Franz
AND, when Cutter gets the Wilton open, he can go to this site and learn
how to make new jaws for it.
http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Mac...wiltonjaws.html
03-29-2005
posted by
Cutter
Quote: Originally Posted by Franz
AND, when Cutter gets the Wilton open, he can go to this site and learn
how to make new jaws for it.
You know what? I've been dreading that.
__________________
cutter
03-29-2005
posted by 7018
Quote: Originally Posted by Franz
AND, when Cutter gets the Wilton open, he can go to this site and learn
how to make new jaws for it.
I wonder if he painted his thumb nail or is the nail paint is wearing
off??????????
03-29-2005
posted by Franz
Quote: Originally Posted by 7018
I wonder if he painted his thumb nail or is the nail paint is wearing
off??????????
Not real sure what the deal on the thumbnail is, but if you back the site
up to his main page, the guy is a guitar maker, and repairer of stringed
instruments. For people who can tolerate wood, he has a lot of great
information.
03-29-2005
posted by Jeff
Cutter,
You have probably already done this, but did you try bolting it down,
applying pressure to jaw, and heating the dog s**t out of the barrel?
Jeff
03-29-2005
posted by
Cutter
Quote: Originally Posted by Jeff
Cutter,
You have probably already done this, but did you try bolting it down,
applying pressure to jaw, and heating the dog s**t out of the barrel?
Jeff
Did you make it to page 15?
__________________
cutter
03-30-2005
posted by Don_S
Cutter,
If I remember correctly the vise has a hole clear through the middle so
this probably wouldn't work unless you could seal the center. I had a
person tell me the best way he found to unstick rusted in cast iron
pistons in an old tractor was to fill the cylinders with diesel and light
it up. This is on an old JD two cylinder block removed from the tractor
and set up on end. The burning diesel at the top of the pool heats things
up while the diesel on the bottom of the pool is tenaciously trying to
work it's way between the piston and block.
Don
03-30-2005
posted by river1
Quote: Originally Posted by cutter
To tell the truth River, I had read about using molasses last year but I
just didn't want to go buy 5 gallons of it & then have to clean up that
mess too. As far as surface rust goes, I just about had that whipped & I
couldn't bring myself to believe molasses would penetrate the close
tolerances involved inside the old vise.
I don't know about the penetration part but to clean up the mess just pour
it in your garden works great as fertilizer.
later jim
03-30-2005
posted by
Cutter
Quote: Originally Posted by Don_S
The burning diesel at the top of the pool heats things up while the diesel
on the bottom of the pool is tenaciously trying to work it's way between
the piston and block.
Don
That is an interesting idea, Don. But of course you're right, there is a 2
inch hole (app.) plumb through her to the front jaw then it closes down to
about 1 1/8th in. The 3 collar screws are tapped all the way though into
that cavity as well.
But hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm . . . . . . .
__________________
cutter
03-30-2005
posted by EngCan
Hi Cutter just read the vise (vice) saga, got to admire your perseverance.
Don't know if this is any help but......
I regularly clean rust, burnt on oil, other crud, by putting a 75%
Glycol/25% water mix (antifreeze) in a crock pot.
Put the offending bits in the pot and set heat to full for 2 hours, turn
down to low heat and leave for loooong time (week).
All bits come out clean. Seized up items come unseized (is that a word).
Used this method on a cylinder (cast iron) and stuck piston. They came
apart easy. The piston rigs had rusted to the cylinder bore.
As Franz is the expert on all things divine and chemical maybe he could
shed more light on the validity of this process.
Regards Frank
__________________
I wander'd lonely as a cloud....
03-30-2005
posted by
Cutter
Quote: Originally Posted by EngCan
Hi Cutter just read the vise (vice) saga, got to admire your perseverance.
I regularly clean rust, burnt on oil, other crud, by putting a 75%
Glycol/25% water mix (antifreeze) in a crock pot.
Regards Frank
Antifreeze, for pete's sake! Now there's another new idea. And a crock pot
would mean relatively low heat. I don't know where to get a crock pot that
big but one of them turkey cookers would probably be about right. I wonder
how long a propane tank would run on low?
Thanks, Frank.
__________________
cutter
03-30-2005
posted by fatfrank
Quote: Originally Posted by cutter
Antifreeze, for pete's sake! Now there's another new idea. And a crock pot
would mean relatively low heat. I don't know where to get a crock pot that
big but one of them turkey cookers would probably be about right. I wonder
how long a propane tank would run on low?
Thanks, Frank.
I bet a 20lb propane take would run a small coleman camping stove on low
for a long time.
03-30-2005
posted by Wyoming
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cutter, Antifreeze??!! With that big turkey cooker romping along you ought
to at least check with Madam and see if she has any Mulligan stew recipes
that might sorta/kinda work instead. Don't forget the bay leaf.
03-30-2005
posted by madam X
Quote: Originally Posted by Wyoming
Cutter, Antifreeze??!! With that big turkey cooker romping along you ought
to at least check with Madam and see if she has any Mulligan stew recipes
that might sorta/kinda work instead. Don't forget the bay leaf.
For the quantity a turkey cooker would hold, I'd suggest at least 5 bay
leaves - cheaper at the HFS. I always get Mulligan confused with
Mulligatawney. One takes apple.
__________________
madam X - Site Empress for Life
Director of Policy, Inane Matters (by appointment)
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc
Now go kill something for me
03-31-2005
posted by Wyoming
Quote: Originally Posted by madam X
I always get Mulligan confused with Mulligatawney. One takes apple.
Cutter, there you are...an apple a day gets Cutter's vise back into play.
03-31-2005
posted by
Cutter
Quote: Originally Posted by Wyoming
Cutter, there you are...an apple a day gets Cutter's vise back into play.
Hey - nice save, Wyoming! I was just thinking of telling you two to go do
lunch, go shopping or move it on down to the Martha Stewart thread but
don't be talking that Food Channel stuff here in the Vise thread.
__________________
cutter
03-31-2005
posted by Wyoming
Cutter, Just joking with you Cutter. The idea of the turkey cooker sounds
like it might have a good chance of working. Heck of a lot easier than
trying to strong-arm those jaws apart. The idea also sounds a heck of a
lot less volatile than some of the other recommendations you've had on the
previous iterations of this thread.
03-31-2005
posted by
Cutter
Quote: Originally Posted by Wyoming
The idea also sounds a heck of a lot less volatile than some of the other
recommendations you've had on the previous iterations of this thread.
lol, Ain't that the truth? I'm sitting here daydreaming about having time
to drop by the scrap yard tomorrow to see if they might have short stick
of big I-beam I could use to try to fab up a better launcher.
But in my dream the other night, that old Wilton jacked apart just as
slick as a greased hawg through a headlock. Heck, the tube wasn't even
very rusty past the first inch or so. Oh yeah, that diesel dip had done a
great job - in my dream.
But back here in the present, I'm kinda liking Frank's turkey cookin' with
anti-freeze idea.
__________________
cutter
03-31-2005
posted by Wyoming
Cutter, Start out with Frank turkey cooker idea of bringing the
antifreeze/vise to a good roiling boil and than decant them into a black 5
gallon bucket with clinch lid and set the whole shebang out in that Texas
sun for a good couple of weeks. The day heat/night cool down cycles should
work wonders.
03-31-2005
posted by moe1942
Cutter, are the jaws closed on your vise? If not it would be easier to get
it moving in the closed direction. Once it moves the battle is almost
over.
How about a small dab of semtex...
__________________
If you can read this thank a teacher, and it's in English so thank a Vet..
"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will
be a nation gone under". ~Ronald Reagan
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