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08-24-2004
posted by
Cutter
New Shop Building
It's a funny thing how life can suddenly shift gears and accelerate. Last
Thursday I made my appearance before the zoning board to request a
variance in the setback requirements for my shop building, expecting to be
stuck there most of the day. In less than an hour I left with a verbal
"ok" on the deal & went back to work. Saturday I got the letter with
official approval in the mail. I spent Saturday & Sunday afternoon making
phone calls mainly hoping to get a favorable referral to a concrete
contractor that I could maybe line up to pour my slab sometime in the near
future, expecting this process to take a few days. As it happened my old
friend Harold had stumbled across a man who poured a drive & several
smaller pieces for him a month or so ago & he had high praise for him. I
left a message on the guy's machine Sunday afternoon & he was here at 4pm.
The result is that Pete & crew start this afternoon. I spent Monday
afternoon getting the permit & picking up the bolt pattern from the
building supplier 15 miles away, along with the anchor bolts and I managed
to scrounge enough chain link fence & t-posts to build a temporary dog run
for Dottie & Jake. Somehow, all of this was more exhausting than work.
Maybe it was the sticker shock.
If you built your building last year, congratulate yourself. If you
haven't priced a building this year, take a deep breath. Steel prices are
up; perhaps you've heard about that. This is a standard kit building from
Mueller, 24 feet wide, 30 feet long, 10 foot side walls. The basic package
engineered for 120 mph wind load, 20lbs per sqft snow load: $5795. Add
insulation, 2 walk doors and some extra material for re-working the
overhead door opening, colored roof, add deadbolts to the doors, plus tax
& free delivery to my slab: $8235.18. The slab is costing about $2400,
then there will be the 24 ft x 12 ft wide drive to the side street for
another $1400.
But I do have some good news: I saved a bunch of money on my car insurance
yesterday by switching to monthly drafts.
__________________
cutter
08-24-2004
posted by Wyoming
Cutter, Congratulations! A word of advice...make sure there is a grade
change between the shop floor and the drive outside or you'll be having
rain water to clean up after every storm. Throw in a ceiling so you can
add insulation up there as well...makes the shop much more liveable in
both the summer and winter. Last bit of advice...if you use vises, anvils
and such, sink as many female end sections of drill casing to grade in the
floor and it will be a snap moving vises, anvils and such mounted on male
sections of drill casing around as needed. Good luck on the build and hope
to hear you get a lot of use from the shop.
08-24-2004
posted by big rig guy
Very good Cutter, I hope to see lots of pics during construction. What
about drains in the shop floor ??????
__________________
There's a method to the madness, disturb the method and the madness
begins.
08-24-2004
posted by
Cutter
Quote:Originally Posted by Wyoming
Last bit of advice...if you use vises, anvils and such, sink as many
female end sections of drill casing to grade in the floor
!!!! I don't know if we have a drill casing store anymore, WY. Can you
overnight me a couple of couplings?
__________________
cutter
08-24-2004
posted by Franz
Cutter, I been noticing even the ads on Paul Harvey for steel buildings
ain't playin any more, and when I swung by the supplier a couple weeks
back to get some steel for the awning I built over my garage wood pile, I
got a bit concerned when the one kid came runnin with the oxygen bottle.
3 foot coverage steel is 2 bucks a foot minimum, with delivery of 2 to 6
weeks depending on color.
08-24-2004
posted by
Cutter
Well the hell of it is, I don't see any reason to expect the price to go
down any time soon unless the whole economy collapses under the weight of
the oil prices & then it wouldn't make any difference anyway. Even though
my timing is a year or two late, every month I put this off costs me
another $300 in rent for that danged old barn. I've already paid for
several of these little shops in the last 11 years & I'm sick of it. That
$3600 a year will recoup the cost of this project pretty quickly.
__________________
cutter
08-24-2004
posted by DDA52
Cutter
The slab $$ is awful cheap. Are you buying the materials?
Also, ditto Wyoming's comment on the grade drop at the doors. It doesn't
take much, 3/4" will do nicely. That is a favorite place for concrete
dudes to cut the corners on. They are a pain to finish, that's why. The
drop will make a major difference though. I'm sure you know what I'm
talking about, but if not, let me know and I'll shoot you a pic and
details. Since I am in the crete business, I hate it when people don't do
it right. I mean, that's what you're paying for isn't it???
__________________
Don
Grand High Poobah...(by appointment.)
08-24-2004
posted by
Cutter
This is for Arcdawg
Get a grip now, Brian. Find a workboot or something to bite down on.
The build team so far includes Pete Chevez (concrete), John Hernandez
(little bit of plumbing) and Pablo Gomez (building erector).
I did not choose them because they are illegals; they aren't. I chose them
because of their work & reputations. In this part of the country,
Hispanics have carved themselves a solid place in the building and other
skilled trades and I am nearly always pleased to do business with them.
However, I have learned to not try to work alongside them in any
competitive way; they'll generally work you to death.
__________________
cutter
08-24-2004
posted by DDA52
Quote: Originally Posted by cutter
Get a grip now, Brian. Find a workboot or something to bite down on.
The build team so far includes Pete Chevez (concrete), John Hernandez
(little bit of plumbing) and Pablo Gomez (building erector).
I did not choose them because they are illegals; they aren't. I chose them
because of their work & reputations. In this part of the country,
Hispanics have carved themselves a solid place in the building and other
skilled trades and I am nearly always pleased to do business with them.
However, I have learned to not try to work alongside them in any
competitive way; they'll generally work you to death.
He'd die here. The population is 65% hispanic. In the concrete business, I
can only think of maybe a few dozen white guys in the whole city. ( pop
1.2 million)
__________________
Don
Grand High Poobah...(by appointment.)
08-24-2004
posted by
Cutter
Quote: Originally Posted by DDA52
Cutter
The slab $$ is awful cheap. Are you buying the materials?
Also, ditto Wyoming's comment on the grade drop at the doors. It doesn't
take much, 3/4" will do nicely. That is a favorite place for concrete
dudes to cut the corners on. They are a pain to finish, that's why. The
drop will make a major difference though. I'm sure you know what I'm
talking about, but if not, let me know and I'll shoot you a pic and
details. Since I am in the crete business, I hate it when people don't do
it right. I mean, that's what you're paying for isn't it???
Yep, and thank you Don. Pete has already discussed the lip, called it a
rabbet & it took me a while to catch on. I have already lived in one house
that didn't have that litle detail - real PIA. I thought the price sounded
pretty cheap, too but that's turn key. I was kinda hoping some one would
comment.
Hmmm, I better get my butt outside & start getting ready for these guys to
show up. He'll be ragging me for being just another lazy white boy. Which
is pretty much the truth these days.
__________________
cutter
08-24-2004
posted by DDA52
Just out of curiosity, what is the slab design? Any interior beams?
(another favorite shortcut) Steel size?
__________________
Don
Grand High Poobah...(by appointment.)
08-24-2004
posted by DDA52
Oh yea, don't let them forget the siding pocket on the outside form. It
would be the same as leaving out the door pocket.
__________________
Don
Grand High Poobah...(by appointment.)
08-24-2004
posted by SlimJim
Cutter, I feel your pain brother. I am in the process of building a barn
and they are not giving away steel here either. Its is 60 x 80 and it
looks like i am going to end up with over 10 grand in it. That is with no
slab, no sides and barely any gables. Farming sucks. Maybe I should sell
all my cows. Naa, I cant do that with prices up like they are. I think I
will wait till they drop back down to record lows and then get out. Geesh,
I need a beer, now why did I quit drinkin Come to think of it, that barn
would make one hell of a shop with a little concrete and some walls.
08-24-2004
posted by
Cutter
color sketch
This is a cad drawing (or something) that Mueller sent with an earlier
quote of a slightly larger much more expensive buildling. It was supposed
to provide support for a crane beam rated at 2000lbs, cost $3600 extra. I
decided I could do better than that. Not showing are a couple of walk
doors & some windows. The cross bracing is done with cables.
BTW, the slab work for today is recheduled to begin tomorrow, fine with
me; Pete & I have a common goal of completion this week.
__________________
cutter
08-24-2004
posted by
Cutter
Quote: Originally Posted by big rig guy
Very good Cutter, I hope to see lots of pics during construction. What
about drains in the shop floor ??????
Big rig, I considered a drain but I really don't want to sacrifice the
flat surface for one. And I won't be washing any trucks. I intend to
install a 2 bucket laundry-type of tub just for parts washing & hand
scrubbing. And probably a urinal. They seem more & more useful to me these
days. I may relent & make it a commode, depending on what I can scrounge.
I've just always thought a shop should have a real urinal.
They kind of separate the delicate-type ladies from the real women, don't
you think? lol
__________________
cutter
08-24-2004
posted by rodburner
Hey Congrats on starting the new project cutter, show us pics of it in
production. Its a pain but once its finished its awesome.
__________________
Billy
08-24-2004
posted by 1911man
That's great Cutter sounds like it's really taking off. Just don't get
going so fast that you meet yourself coming and going!
08-24-2004
posted by 7018
Congrats cutter,bet u'll love having that shop i know i do like mine when
its clean
08-24-2004
posted by Paychk
Dude
All I can say is I'm jealous !
Too cool!
__________________
Ory-gun Boy!
08-24-2004
posted by Jim314
Good deal Cutter. I'm looking forward to seeing the construction pics!
08-24-2004
posted by Sberry
Yes, every shop needs a pisser.
I have a couple bathrooms too, but that setup and another sink on other
side keep a lot of traffic out of them. Here is a detail shot for the
engineer types.
This sink is in a handy spot, this was in the plans when I built, I had
one in the traffic zone in another building and it worked great.
08-24-2004
posted by arcdawg
CUTTER, i see that you have been busy while i have been chasing tail in
NYC
you know that i am not THAT narrow minded !!! i understand that us grinos
will be phased out like a commerdore 64
all smart *** remarks aside ... i have been running a crew of mexicallies
for a few days for my boss and those *******s are good !
good luck with the new shop......
(im pretty mellow even though i havent been snipped and clipped !)
dawg
08-24-2004
posted by Wyoming
Cutter, The wife and I have been gone all day on a Home Depot run down to
Casper. The drill casing goes for 10 cents a lb. scrap, but I think the
overnight air fee just might be the deal/back breaker. Now are you just
darned sure there isn't a casing store in your neighborhood? Seems like up
north of ya' a ways in Pampa I was swimming in the stuff back in '78 when
building a power plant outside of town for Celenese...you know the
one...it went boom a few years later. Gotta hand it to Pampa...it made
Lubbuck look like a garden paradise. As far as the floor drains go it
probably would have been a hard sell to your local building inspector.
Here in the land that government regulations nearly forgot you have to
install a sump pit instead of floor drains to get a sign-off. Again, enjoy
that shop. My wife talked me into having a retirement shop erected (40 x
60) twenty years early.
08-25-2004
posted by
Cutter
Wyoming,
I was kidding about the "overnight" but my problem with the casing is
time. I called a guy tonight who drives a Mac "pick up" wagon for American
Iron & Metal, figuring he'd know if there was a scrap pile anywhere. He
came up blank. Best I can come up with would be some local pump company
but the slab should go down day after tomorrow or Friday. Finding time to
scrounge looks to be iffy. Standard pipe couplings in the 3 or 4 inch
range would be easier. Pampa is a whole different animal than Lubbock. I
used to work the Pampa area about one week a month 25 years ago when I
took a brief turn as a traveling salesman & I was in the Odessa oilpatch
enough that I kept a tiny apartment there for a couple of years. But we're
talking 180 miles north to Pampa, 160 south to Midland/Odessa. Not
something I can do on my coffee break. And Lubbock is almost entirely
agricultural, not much oil activity around here.
__________________
cutter
08-25-2004
posted by Wyoming
Cutter, If you like the idea of the well casing vise mounts in the floor
but don't have the time to run them down before the concrete arrives than
let me run another idea by you. Instead of planting the well casing to
grade install upside down empty gallon coffee/food cans. They can be
"pulled" when you have the casing handy. Only just a bit more work to run
a post hole digger down the opening, drill a hole or two into your slab to
run a short section of rebar into for flex support before welding it to
the casing and pour a bit of sakrete down the hole to make it all look
like it belongs there. Same goes for "blocking out" stanchions for your
overhead door protection if you think you might want the option later.
08-25-2004
posted by DDA52
Cutter
Leave outs could work if you don't get the casings. Maybe you could get
generic 2.5 or 3" threaded pipe couplers? They might work in a bind.
Styrofoam or sand bags/boxes make good leave outs also.
__________________
Don
Grand High Poobah...(by appointment.)
08-25-2004
posted by Sirarcalot
Congratulations on your shop. Cutter. I am also jealous. I wish I had the
room to expand. Until then, I guess my wife will have to do without a
garage. I hope you enjoy the heck out of that shop for all of us.
08-25-2004
posted by
Cutter
Thanks, guys. I am indeed interested in the casing idea. Maybe I can
discuss this with Pete tomorrow once we get through a couple of other
hurdles, like getting that heavy little storage shed that is sitting where
the driveway is going to be. It has to go so the tractor & cement truck
can get in to do the slab. There are several little things like that
because I expected to spend the next week or two just trying to line up a
contractor to do the job. Pete really screwed me up by being available
now.
Sirarcalot - If I had a wife to deal with, there would be no shop in my
future either, I suspect. I don't really have enough room for this either;
I have a little patio that extends 11 feet out from my back door; there
will be 1 foot of open ground between it and the building. I am actually
going to have to cut the patio cover back 2 or 3 feet & gutter it. I will
also have to gutter the shop. But I figger that few wives would go along
with what I am doing. My dogs will adjust real quick & any women that may
come around here are either my kids or they are visitors & don't have a
vote.
By the way, I think its time you dropped a first name or something else
for us to call you because every time I try to type Sirarcalot I have to
edit it; I nearly always type "Sircarlot" the first time. It doesn't feel
right to shorten it to "Sir", Sirarc" makes me think of Star Trek & the
whole danged name feels too formal or something. Can we just call you Ted?
Or how about S'lot?
__________________
cutter
08-25-2004
posted by D York
Cutter...Congratulations on your shop. Wish I had the space for one that
size. Good luck on the build.
08-25-2004
posted by
Cutter
Thanks, D. All you really have to do is be willing to part with your back
yard & wife. Well, that's not really quite honest; all you have to do is
get your wife to take everything you own except your tools & maybe your
truck so you can start all over. Then you can maybe buy yourself a little
bitty house and turn the back yard into a shop. See? It's not so hard.
__________________
cutter
08-25-2004
posted by Sberry
I like to not get in a yank before the pour and get everything I can under
the floor. Any electric, water, phone chases, drains, even air lines.
Hanging stuff in the ceilings is slow and saves running things over door
headers. I bite the bullet ant put another elect panel on the other side
just so I dont need to run a bunch of branch circuits every time I want to
add something.
08-25-2004
posted by D York
Cutter..What about having a few conduit runs crossing the slab in a few
locations so at a later date if you need elect. you could cut into and
pull wire as needed.
08-25-2004
posted by
Cutter
Yeah, Sberry's got me to thinking.
__________________
cutter
08-25-2004
posted by Sirarcalot
Cutter. I guess I was just being shy at first, but since I seem to be
among friends. My name is Marcus. I think if I had it to do over again, I
would use a different screen name.
08-25-2004
posted by
Cutter
Great, Marcus it is.
I was just having a little fun with you but Sirarcalot really is kinda
hard to type. Marcus is good.
__________________
cutter
08-25-2004
posted by realhfd
Cutter, looks like you got a great project going on there. Before we put
in our home we had a slab poured for a shop. Not as big as yours tho, only
24x28. After final on the home and other messes cleared up got started on
the shop. Was originally thinking wood construction but got metal instead.
Had my brother and another fella help me put it up. That was a fun job.
Have a water line out to the building just in case but haven't used it yet
except for a faucet at one of the outside corners. Was thinking of putting
in a john or something but have so many nice bushes an trees out back that
so far the space inside has been put to other uses. Anyway, have fun with
the project and enjoy the end result.
08-25-2004
posted by
Cutter
Thanks, real - thanks to all of you for your good wishes and good will.
That's a good omen for the project. May as well start the ball rolling for
the contruction pictures; wanna see some hard Texas dirt?
Attached Images harddirt.jpg (40.7 KB, 374 views)
__________________
cutter
08-25-2004
posted by fatfrank
I know what you mean my the hard TX dirt. That's all we have around here.
You could have ran the soaker hose for those guy for a couple of days But
since you have a firm quote for the labor, let those guys earn their
money.
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