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09-17-2004
posted by Wyoming
Cutter, If you can find/scrounge a forced air radiant gas heater you will
be way ahead of the forced air furnace. The furnace is running around
60-65 % efficiency while the radiant will run better than 90%. If you
can't come across a unit used or otherwise cheap all bets are off as they
most definitely are too expensive to consider.
09-17-2004
posted by Jake
I have my Garage/workshop floor coated with an inductrial Epoxy. It is the
same stuff they use at Boeing. IN my former life, I layed that stuff down
for a living, It holds up to my welding slag really well, But Sealing,
(with a high quality sealer, not that cheap crap,) is a great way to go as
well. I can tell you this, a dropped part is alot easier to see on my
battleship grey floor, than on concrete.
09-18-2004
posted by
Cutter
Thanks for all the thoughtful suggestions, guys. I hadn't planned on
painting the floor, sealing it or anything else. Concrete has always been
just - you know, concrete to me and so long as its not covered with sharp
cuttings or broken glass it just beats hell out of working in the dirt. I
might need to think about that. How do you apply this epoxy coating or the
"high quality" sealer, Jake?
__________________
cutter
09-18-2004
posted by
Cutter
Wyoming,
I am inclined to go with the heating equipment I have on hand & infra red
or radiant heat ain't among the options. And right now, anything that runs
a high current drain isn't either. Since I failed the 3 phase test I
decided to forget the separate meter/200 amp drop, too; meeting the new
code for service entry equipment would cost about $1000 just to get the
power through the wall. Tapping off my house meter will cost me little
above nothing, maybe $100.
One thing to consider is that we don't have the kind of winter you do up
there so heating a tight little building like this one is relatively easy.
Among my options is the wood stove, a forced air wall heater, a small
forced air natural gas furnace or the forced air gas hung-from-the-ceiling
furnace. Gilbert down at Planning & Zoning was careful to tell me that
pulling a permit for heating & cooling was going to drastically complicate
my life so we winked on past that one. I think I better stick to the
woodstove for now & hang on to one of the gas options for later. Let's
just say that a woodstove is radiant heat & leave it at that.
__________________
cutter
09-18-2004
posted by
Cutter
Overhead door
I forgot to mention that my "custom" overhead door was delivered yesterday
afternoon. Turns out the guy out at Classic Doors "rolls his own", prices
them by the square foot and can make one the same day if he has the
material in stock. Cost $529 delivered, tax included. I probably should
have paid for installation, too but didn't for 2 reasons:
1. I usually find several cost-cutting problems with overhead
installations & knew that this one is going to need some mounts & braces
added here & there. I knew that they would use sheet metal for it. I can
cut & drill much stronger pieces.
2. Son Steve had a weak moment last week & agreed to take it on so he is
coming over this afternoon; maybe we can get that done this weekend.
__________________
cutter
09-18-2004
posted by Wyoming
Cutter, I agree with your heating needs and solutions wholeheartedly. I
also envy you for your Planning and Zoning friend....keeping them quiet
and contented is a large part of squeeking through cheap. If it weren't
for the water pipes in the shop I'd probably have gone with wood heat. You
may experience a bit of rust problems with wood heat...though you also may
not due to your warmer weather and low humidity. If you do find it a
problem start working over the cast iron with a good car wax containing
carnuba wax. Get that final inspect done and than you can "work around" to
your heart's content with the doors closed.
09-19-2004
posted by Jake
Cutter,
You acid etch the floor with muratic Acid ( I do it twice, just to make
sure) then neutralize with Ammonia. Then rinse a few times with H2O and
let it dry out. The epoxy is water based and goes on with a paint roller,
then after the 1st coat, you can put a second down. 3 or 4 days later you
got a pretty nice epoxy floor. It only take sme a day for cleaning and
application number one, then day two is the second coat. It driesfor 3 or
4 days (just to make sure) then you can beat the tar out of it. My
neighbors have all ended up asking me to help them install it.
The shop looks great though, You may do just fine witout it, This helps a
little with avoiding those pits in the concrete that happen when the hot
slag or metal drips onto it. For my welding and cutting area, I ended up
getting some cement board for under the stuff though.. no reason to beat
the crap out of it before I need to.
09-19-2004
posted by MangleWeld
If you can and have time it would be worth it, you won't be sorry you took
the time for it. It is so much easier to clean, work on, and find things
you drop. Do it now is the time when it is empty.....
09-19-2004
posted by SheepDog
In concrete-time, this pour is still curing. Wouldn't it be a good idea to
wait a while before adding paint to the top of it?
09-19-2004
posted by Franz
Cutter, with all the tire tracks you got on the floor already, I doubt
it's gonna come clean enough to paint anyhow.
Best case, pressure wash the sucker, and paint it with cheap porch/deck
enamel. You should have sprinkled iron filings onto the deck as it was
finished, and you'd be able to roll steel cylinders across it forever
without scratching the deck.
Paint adhesion to concrete is generally screwed by somebody driving a red
hot tire onto the floor, and letting it sit there and weld itself to the
paint layer. Point an infrared thermometer at the tread of a tire that has
just run 50 miles, and see if you'd want to touch it.
Besides Cutter, once you get yer toys in the building, do you really think
you'll ever see the floor again?
Check out http://www.concrete.com/
09-19-2004
posted by Jake
30 day wait..
09-19-2004
posted by
Cutter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake
30 day wait..
I think I will pass.
I haven't been able to get a damned thing done I meant to do late this
afternoon anyway because after all the dry days we've had, the weather
decided to turn this evening, trying to rain after the dirt blew all
afternoon & I have been scrambling to try & save stuff stacked outside
under a tarp that blew off. Basically, it is sprinkling mudballs. So now I
have to cut & drill some angle iron I will need for the over head door
installation, hopefully tomorrow.
Plus every 30 day delay is another $300 rent down the drain on the old
building. I am grateful that the weather has been near ideal to this
point.
__________________
cutter
09-20-2004
posted by Tom Zachman
Thanks for the fun read
I confess, it took me two daze to read about Cutter's experience, but what
a nice read...
Good luck with your new toy box. ENJOY IT..
09-20-2004
posted by
Cutter
Thanks, Tom. I just happened to be sitting here when you arrived, which is
not entirely unusual. It's been fun - most of the time.
Welcome to our little dreamscape, glad to have you aboard.
__________________
cutter
09-20-2004
posted by morpheus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake
I have my Garage/workshop floor coated with an inductrial Epoxy. It is the
same stuff they use at Boeing. IN my former life, I layed that stuff down
for a living, It holds up to my welding slag really well, But Sealing,
(with a high quality sealer, not that cheap crap,) is a great way to go as
well. I can tell you this, a dropped part is alot easier to see on my
battleship grey floor, than on concrete.
hey Jake, your floor sounds like mine, even the color. What do you have in
high abuse areas (like around your bench vise) ? I painted my floor about
3 years ago and the area around my bench vise and my drill press is all
chipped up from dropping things or the cut end of something falling onto
the floor.
__________________
Jack's Place - 4x4's, Tools, Humor, Bungi Jumping and more ....
09-20-2004
posted by Jake
To tell you the truth, I don't have too many problems with chipping, but I
mounted my bench grinder stand on two giant 4X 12's, so most things that
fall hit the wood first. I have a few scrapes on the floor that came from
draggin something heavy, and having a screw or nail underneath it, but
they never broke through to the concrete. The stuff if pretty bullet
proof, I am really glad I put it down... You really got to have some sort
of coating or sealer, especially if you have a multi-purpose garage. Mine
serves as a car repair shop, wood working shop, Welding shop, junk
storage, and point to strain in my marriage... I could never again go
without a shop.
09-20-2004
posted by
Cutter
chipping away
Here is where my afternoon went; we got the door up & the inside plumbing
done. We still have to install the lift spring tomorrow & do some
adjusting but at least the weather is finally held at bay which might be
handy since the forecast is 30 - 40 % chance of rain for the next 3 or 4
days. And the water is on, potty works. The wind has been blowing all day
& the floor is pretty well covered with grit - situation normal.
__________________
cutter
09-20-2004
posted by TheFrenchCanadian
Geez Cutter, It's a good thing you live alone... I'd sure hate to be
sitting on that toilet when someone opens the shop door!! I'll bet it
would be a mite cool and drafty!!
Keep up the good work and pics!!
09-20-2004
posted by 1911man
Now Luc, you know what friendly sorta guy Cutter is- if somebody comes in
the door, he wants to be right there to greet 'em!
09-20-2004
posted by arcdawg
cutter, you should look into putting up some F.R.P. easy to clean...and i
believe that its fireproof too...... gives it that finished look
speaking of fireproof ......are you doing a sprinkler set up ?
dawg
09-20-2004
posted by MangleWeld
Cutter you really got something started with this shop, This is the best
read I've had in years. What are you going to come up with next to beat
this?
09-20-2004
posted by Shade Tree Welder
Quote:
Originally Posted by MangleWeld
Cutter you really got something started with this shop, This is the best
read I've had in years. What are you going to come up with next to beat
this?
.....finish the vise thread.....
__________________
Ron Lemke, Keeper of the Insane Asylum.
"A nation which prefers disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and
deserves one." --Alexander Hamilton
09-20-2004
posted by atucker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade Tree Welder
.....finish the vise thread.....
I'll vote for that. Then again, the next problem will be Cutter won't want
to bring that nasty container full of that oily diesel fuel(and vise) into
the new shop on his nice new concrete floor. Of course, by the time that
happens, some other project will come up that will keep Cutter from
finishing the shop. Then we'll have 3 super-long threads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcdawg
cutter, you should look into putting up some F.R.P. easy to clean...and i
believe that its fireproof too...... gives it that finished look
speaking of fireproof ......are you doing a sprinkler set up ?
dawg
Not trying to hijack cutters thread, but-- I'll agree with dawg about the
FRP. I put a sink in my garage several months back and used FRP behind and
beside it. Stuff is indestructable, waterproof, hard to stain, easy to
clean and looks good too. It is fire-rated. Kinda pricy, but great stuff.
You might have seen it in car washes or WalMart bathrooms.
Allen T.
09-20-2004
posted by
Cutter
Thanks for the heads-up guys. I never heard of it but I'll check into it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by atucker
I'll vote for that. Then again, the next problem will be Cutter won't want
to bring that nasty container full of that oily diesel fuel(and vise) into
the new shop on his nice new concrete floor. Of course, by the time that
happens, some other project will come up that will keep Cutter from
finishing the shop. Then we'll have 3 super-long threads.
Not trying to hijack cutters thread, but-- I'll agree with dawg about the
FRP. I put a sink in my garage several months back and used FRP behind and
beside it. Stuff is indestructable, waterproof, hard to stain, easy to
clean and looks good too. It is fire-rated. Kinda pricy, but great stuff.
You might have seen it in car washes or WalMart bathrooms.
__________________
cutter
09-21-2004
posted by Franz
Cutter, I do believe you've definitely outclasses Sberry and his 5 gallon
bucket!
I suppose yer gonna have maid service come in too so the toilet area will
stay spiffy.
What in the hell is FRP?
Franz
09-21-2004
posted by DDA52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franz
What in the hell is FRP?
We always called it Fire Retardant Plastic. Not sure if that's exactly it
but it's close enough. It has a cousin that's called Marlite. FRP is more
a plain industrial wall covering while Marlite is a more decorative
covering. It comes in 4x8 sheets or 4x10 sheets. You put it in high abuse
areas or in areas that need to be cleaned frequently, like in food prep
areas. Put up lots of the stuff in my comm'l drywall days. Hated it
usually. That and Marlite....yuck. Nothing like having to put your hand in
a 5 gal bucket if glue all day. Blea! Occasionally made for some exiting
moments though. My partner was a smoker and occasionally forgot to loose
the cig when the hand went into the bucket....Can you say FIRE!!!!!!?? He
even caught his hand on fire when taking a big ol' drag 'cuz he had too
much glue on his hands.
Cutter, I agree with the quality of FRP. The stuff is very tough. Most of
the public restrooms around here have it and it always looks good. If it
stands up to that kind of abuse, it must be tough.
__________________
Don
Grand High Poobah...(by appointment.)
09-21-2004, 01:17 AM
posted by
Cutter
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFrenchCanadian
Geez Cutter, It's a good thing you live alone... I'd sure hate to be
sitting on that toilet when someone opens the shop door!! I'll bet it
would be a mite cool and drafty!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by1911man
Now Luc, you know what friendly sorta guy Cutter is- if somebody comes in
the door, he wants to be right there to greet 'em!
Well fellers,
This not a public building & this is not a public restroom so I am kinda
of thinking of letting this little john be a part of the profit, or what
you might call a "pay as you go". If you just gotta have privacy, privacy
is available - for a price. There will be a curtain you can draw for a
buck. But before you do that you will want to read the full menu of
options; if you want paper, for instance, its 10 cents a square or 25
cents a foot. Handi-wipes (for your hands) are 50 cents, Purell is a
dollar a squirt and the big money maker - Preparation H - is 2 dollars an
inch (bring your own nozzle unless you want to rent one. Don't ask. ). And
no, there ain't no separate accomodations for ladies; this thing has
already cost me a bundle.
__________________
cutter
09-21-2004
posted by Franz
Damn Cutter, you bring back fond memorys of pay toilets back before they
were outlawed here.
I can see it in my mind, Cutter standing by a table with a stack of warm
towels and supplys, in a white jacket, next to a tin plate full of coins.
Who knows, he may even work his way up to a coast to coast chain of pay
toilets. Find a need and fill it, the key to success in American business.
Franz
09-21-2004
posted by 1911man
Well Cutter since yer chargin you need to provide a properly stocked
magazine rack.
09-21-2004
posted by
Cutter
Quote:
Originally Posted by MangleWeld
Cutter you really got something started with this shop, This is the best
read I've had in years. What are you going to come up with next to beat
this?
Thanks, Mangle. Threads like this are fun for me & you're right, they are
hard to come up with. I'm afraid Shade's response is correct; the old Vise
has to be next and is gonna be almost as much trouble to replicate and
re-post as this one has been to build. I kinda dread it.
But I think most of us have a hankering for a new, bigger or better shop
so it has been my 2 part goal to:
a. finally build myself a new, smaller but better one and one that is a
whole heck of a lot more convenient than my old one which is 5 miles away,
and
b. to share the experience of building it with all of you to the extent
that I can. You guys have given me a lot of good advice & suggestions that
I might have used more of had I been able to plan ahead a little better. I
hope that many of you can glean some ideas from watching this develop even
if you only see me make mistakes that you can avoid later on when you do
have the opportunity to build your own.
So this is pretty much an "interactive thread" where you can inject your
ideas & suggestions as it develops. Whether I use them or not is maybe not
so important as it is to offer up the ideas and let everyone discuss them.
After all, that is what ShopFloorTalk is supposed to be - discussion. And
I think it is living up to its purpose very well. I also think it is a
hell of a lot of fun.
__________________
cutter
09-21-2004
posted by
Cutter
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911man
Well Cutter since yer chargin you need to provide a properly stocked
magazine rack.
Not a chance. Paper sales would, as they say, go right down the old
toilet.
Jeez Roy, you gotta think these things through!
__________________
cutter
09-21-2004
posted by arcdawg
cutter..........now getting back to F.R.P. i used to put the stuff up all
the time when i worked at the stainless shop ......great for restruant
kitchens,
even did a carwash once......no painting EVER and like previously said its
damn near impossible to bust
so instead of sheet foking the whole garage or leaving as is you can use
the frp and end up with a finished look in half the time
call around for the best prices
dawg
09-21-2004
posted by madam X
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franz
I suppose yer gonna have maid service come in too so the toilet area will
stay spiffy.
Don't look at me. I'm going for a bike ride.
Maybe Bill from Chappaqua is looking for work; Kerry won't have anything
to do in 57 days either.
__________________
madam X - Site Empress for Life
Director of Policy, Inane Matters (by appointment)
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc
Now go kill something for me
09-21-2004, 02:10 PM
posted by atucker
FRP = Fiberglass Reinforced Plastic. HERE'S a link to one of the mfgs of
the stuff. It's even available in rolls. From cleaning various things in
my sink, I've made a horrible looking mess around the sink many times.
Even after the crud dries, all it takes is a damp rag and it's clean
again. It's available at Lowe's as well as most drywall suppliers.
Allen T.
09-21-2004
posted by 7018
Well cutter i must say u got it done,and its looking good to. As i was
reading this trying to catch up,I was also thinking it was about time to
get the VISE back.But shade beat me to it.Anyhoo i'm real happy for u! Now
lets start moving in!! so we can see all those new tools u
got............U know like that MM251 u got so cheap.
09-21-2004
posted by Jim314
I've really enjoyed it also Cutter, but I assume it's not done yet. There
still has to be a lot of equipment moved in and arranged. Looking forward
to more pictures as that progresses.
I'm also looking forward to the vise thread continuing.
09-21-2004
posted by
Cutter
Let there be light?
Wiring guys, wiring. There is not an outlet or light fixture in the
building. I got this huge blue welder & no place to plug it in? Lot to do
before a move in.
__________________
cutter
09-21-2004
posted by Dman033189
That's what I am doing now I get to dig a hole from the garage to the new
garage so I can finally get power. Then I can move in.
__________________
Don
09-22-2004
posted by DDA52
Quote:
Originally Posted by atucker
FRP = Fiberglass Reinforced Plastic. HERE'S a link to one of the mfgs of
the stuff. It's even available in rolls. From cleaning various things in
my sink, I've made a horrible looking mess around the sink many times.
Even after the crud dries, all it takes is a damp rag and it's clean
again. It's available at Lowe's as well as most drywall suppliers.
Yup, that's what it's called. Now it's coming back up on me!
__________________
Don
Grand High Poobah...(by appointment.)
09-22-2004
posted by MangleWeld
Cutter wish I was closer I would help you wire that new place, take the
two of us about a day but you would have more recipes and light than you
could pay for. going good looks like.. Just think of all the fun your
having.
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