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09-26-2004
posted by TheFrenchCanadian
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franz
...Hell, while yer at it, you might oughta add a 2" conduit for stuff
you'll want out there in the future.
I absolutely second this. I pulled cable and installed electronics years
ago(CCTV, nurse call systems, intercom etc...), and I always found you
needed to leave yourself an "out" for the future. In fact, the guys I
worked for insisted on always leaving room in conduits and leaving a
string in there too, while you were at it.
A conduit to your shop would be tremendously useful if you ever decide to
install a phone, an alarm etc at a later date. You won't have to re-trench
everything again...
My buddies all laugh at me now because anytime I put a cable anywhere, I
leave a piece of string for "future considerations".
They usually stop laughing when I come back six months after I installed
their sattellite dish and use my string to pull in a second line in - in
about 10 minutes - of course the labour charge is the same: beer, lots of
beer...
09-26-2004
Dman033189
When we redid our electric to the garage we tied a sting to a plastic bag
and vacumed the bag through it worked pretty good too.
__________________
Don
09-26-2004
posted by TheFrenchCanadian
That's a heck of an idea Dman! I hadn't thought of that one... beats
wresting with a fishtape!
Occasionally we used remote control 4x4 toy trucks to drag strings across
suspended ceilings... generally, it wasn't much faster than removing the
tiles one by one and climbing up the ladder to tug the string along, but
it was a he!! of a lot more fun!!
I'm not sure our boss new about it though...
09-26-2004
posted by Franz
A chunk of sponge rubber works really well vacuuming thru a conduit, and
you can do really long runs using a blower at the other end. Compressed
air doesn't work well, unless you have the proper conduit piston and a
huge compressor.
Above ceilings, I generally go with a set of chimney cleaning brush rods
that screw together in 3 foot sections. Either an eggbeater or a pair of
roller skate wheels on the end generally gets the rod there. Greenlee now
sells green fiberglass rods for about 5 times what chimney rods cost.
Of course, in really open ceilings, the crossbow pistol with fishing reel
really makes time, as long as you have a clear shot.
09-27-2004
posted by
Cutter
Well, I see there have been a lot of page views over the weekend & I am
sorry I had little or nothing to report. The weather did not cooperate.
Now I want to emphasize that I am not whining for my little misfortune
when Florida just got pounded again & now you guys just north of there are
getting yours again, I'm sure. I can handle a little rain but I can't get
much outdoor work done when it is happening.
But it is peculiar to look at the US weathermap & see a pattern like this.
Other than Hurricane Jeane, there is one other cluster of storm clouds in
the entire country - right smack in the middle of West Texas. Been this
way all weekend.
__________________
cutter
09-27-2004
posted by
Cutter
But I caught enough of a break to get the cable run for the shop lights &
outlets other than the welder service. I pulled the 240 directly from the
meter feed though a new 70 amp breaker, then down through the trench &
back up through the wall into the new building. This gives me a main
breaker outside the shop & enables me to turn off either building
independent of the other. I thought that made more sense than running the
shop off the main breaker for the house.
__________________
cutter
09-27-2004
posted by
Cutter
And finally, this is my 30 dollar ITE box & some of the breakers with 2 of
them finally in use!! For the first time since Pablo & the boys finished
the structure, it has lights running off it's own power. I even have the
cover for the breaker box.
__________________
cutter
09-27-2004
posted by
Cutter
The outlets ain't pretty & they're not code but at least I have a little
something to work with without having to string an extension cord under
the door. The way the water runs off the shop roof onto the patio cover
and then splatters against the door, that cord caused a little leak, so
it's nice to finally have the shop powered up.
__________________
cutter
09-27-2004
posted by
Cutter
So no, I never did get the cable run for the new welder & I never did burn
any wire with it. The way it is raining right now, I don't know when I
will get to do that.
Meanwhile, here is a picture of my 1400 dollar lamp table.
__________________
cutter
09-27-2004
posted by Mischa
Hello everyone! Pleased to meet you all. Cutter I just wanted to say
"Thanks" and let you know how much I have enjoyed this thread. Mischa
09-27-2004
posted by 7018
Cutter did u run power from the house or did i miss some
thing?????????????
09-27-2004
posted by morpheus
You're making progress Cutter ... see, you needed a challenge to keep you
motivated
__________________
Jack's Place - 4x4's, Tools, Humor, Bungi Jumping and more ....
09-27-2004
posted by
Cutter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mischa
Hello everyone! Pleased to meet you all. Cutter I just wanted to say
"Thanks" and let you know how much I have enjoyed this thread. Mischa
Thank you, Mischa. Welcome to our sandbox. Sharing my shop project has
doubled the fun for me.
Yeah Paul, I sure did run power from the house; maybe you missed some
things while you were living though the blackout but I really only hooked
it up yesterday. There is not light one installed in the building yet,
just a couple of work lights.
Well Jack, I dunno about this motivation thing; I got more challenges than
I have ambition or energy.
Speaking of challenges, I decided to pass one of them along to Rick, the
gutterguy; I picked him out of the phone book & liked the way he talked.
He came by Saturday afternoon & looked it over, wound up quoting me $50
dollars less than the ballpark figure he offered off over the phone. Two
30 foot runs of colored continuous gutter plus downspouts comes out to
$246; my experience with gutters is that those guys can do the job better
& faster than I can buy the materials & the seamless gutters are so much
better than using 10 foot sticks with joints that always drip. Of course,
he's already running about 10 days behind & every day of rain adds another
day to it, so it will be next week or even the following one before he can
get to it.
__________________
cutter
09-27-2004
posted by Jake
Sand box, is that the stuff we have been floating in? I swear it was....Oh
never mind.
09-29-2004
posted by
Cutter
Let there be light
I hate to admit that I have come to this point with no preparation
whatsoever for lighting the building, only the vague awareness that
something would have to be done about it. So I would like your input on
the most efficient way to light this sucker up.
My first inclination is to just go out & buy a bunch of 2-tube 40 watt
fluorescents and screw them to the rafters, probably about 8 in each 15
foot bay or a total of 16 fixtures. I know there was a considerable
discussion of this back on the boy "businessman's" site but I'd rather
start fresh than to go back there looking for it.
I would appreciate your recommendations.
__________________
cutter
09-29-2004
posted by madam X
The beacon of SFT
Quote:
Originally Posted by cutter
I hate to admit that I have come to this point with no preparation
whatsoever for lighting the building, only the vague awareness that
something would have to be done about it.
<snip>
I would appreciate your recommendations.
Cutter, that's not the kind of light I'm familiar with but I have observed
something noteworthy.
This morning, at 7,341 views your Shop thread has exceeded Biker Banking
at 7,279 views.
(edit 4/15/07 - the Shop thread on SFT now has
25,758
views)
Thanks for giving us all something to check out with our morning coffee.
__________________
madam X - Site Empress for Life
Director of Policy, Inane Matters (by appointment)
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc
Now go kill something for me
09-29-2004
posted by
Cutter
I have to admit I take some small pleasure in the numbers; I take more in
knowing you all enjoy it.
Thank you.
__________________
cutter
09-29-2004
posted by Franz
Just go to the box store and buy one or two of the $20- mercury lights and
hang them in the peak, for base lighting. Either bypass or tape over the
photocells, and you'll have enough light till you figure out what you're
really doing where.
Add additional purpose specific task lighting as youget thigs figured out.
09-29-2004
posted by
Cutter
Thanks Franz. I really like that idea because it lets me move along to
other things and is kind to the budget. I had considered using a couple of
halogens but I suspect the Merc vapors would diffuse the light more
evenly. Also I seem to be somewhat sensitive to fluorescent flicker; they
usually annoy me & over time that takes a toll on my ability to stay
focused. I have enough trouble with that in daylight.
__________________
cutter
09-29-2004
posted by D York
The mercury lights are a good idea, I think you would like the 175w better
than the 100w as they seem to be more toward the whiter color than the
blue tint.
09-29-2004
posted by TheFrenchCanadian
I like the mercury light idea, however, correct me if I'm wrong, but I
don't think mercury vapor lights are instant on, and that can be an
annoyance too (albeit a minor one...).
Here's another idea along the same lines though (and more in keeping with
the budgetary constraints)... why not just put up 4 or 6 ordinary light
fixtures and use 300 watt bulbs in them for now. That'll give you decent
enough basic overall lighting, and you can add specific light as
time/necessity demands (as Franz suggested). At least the wiring you'll
need will be in place, in any case.
Later on, you can replace 'em with anything you want - be it mercury
vapour, or fluorescent, halogen or whatever. The fact it's all wired up
will make it an easy swap once you decide. I personally like to keep two
circuits for lighting in my shop, one for basic lighting, with old
fashioned incandescent bulbs (the one I use when checking the latest
damage done to our van after my wife gets home from work...) and a
brighter one, with fluorescents, for when I'm acutally trying to
accomplish something in my shop (like getting in there to weld for a
change... ).
Just my $0.02
Luc
09-29-2004
posted by moe1942
Cutter,
Good suggestions all. Maybe the temp answer is several incandescent bulbs
for instant light until the vapors churn up. They don't take all that long
to come up full.
The instant light will let you find the brew and suck down a few while you
try to remember why the hell you are in the shop...
09-29-2004
posted by MangleWeld
Cutter this is a blast. Every time I read this thread I laugh untill my
sides hurt. With all the help your getting it will take you longer to read
the threads than to build the shop. Put up all the lights and reciepts you
can afford you won't be sorry down the road, run 220 to at least two or
three sides of the shop for the welders. Looking for the fix every day
hang in there. Joel
09-29-2004
posted by Franz
Cutter, now that I had some sleep, if you're paying much over 6 cents a
kwh for electrons, also consider Sodium lighting. Of course, that is Nasty
Orange Light, but in a shop it isn't too bad, other than color (colour for
the Canahodians) rendition, and is fairly easy on the eyes, especially if
you're sensitive to flourescent spectrum. Sodium is far closer to the
infrared end of the spectrum.
The fixture will cost about 40 bucks, but you quickly gain that back in
electric costs, at my rates, Sodium cost recovers in less than a year.
Hell, you might even get a utility rebate for saving electrons if the
company is running a program.
09-29-2004, 09:19 PM
posted by linngl
Cutter I was in your same position about 9 months ago. I had read all the
opinions on lighting on the other site. I ended up purchasing 16 new
Lithonia T8 fixtures off of Ebay for $9.00 each. These had electronic
ballast and are instant start. I think the temperature rating is down to 0
degrees F. I purchased 50 T8 bulbs off of bulbs.com for less than 2.00
each. My shop is 30 x 42 with 12 ft. walls. I installed OSB (oriented
strand board) all the way around the shop up to 8 ft. I then painted the
OSB white with the cheapest Wal-mart latex. I installed the 16 fixtures in
4 rows of 4 across the roof. I screwed them to the 8" C-perlins. I
installed 4 switches by the entry door so that I can turn on 4 at a time.
With all 16 on at night its like daylight inside if not better. They give
off a very white light. They are absolutely quite. With all 16 on and
nothing else running you can barely hear a hum. My computer fan is much
louder. I live about 200 miles Northeast of you. Electricity for my shop
is $0.10 / KWH. Each T-8 bulb is 32 watts. With all 16 on it cost me a
little over $0.10 / Hr to operate them. I usually only have 8 on at a time
and the lighting is still excellant.
09-29-2004
posted by Dman033189
I have almost got electric in my new barn and I will have the same
question so I am watching some of you guys ideas. Any tips for digging a
whole for the power line?
__________________
Don
09-29-2004
posted by SheepDog
I like to have more sources of light in a work area rather than fewer.
Having a couple bright ones casts shadows that I find annoying, even with
white walls. Like linngl, I also have some T8 fixtures that I salvaged and
replaced the ballasts. I don't notice the hum or any flicker and they seem
to work fine in the cold (30*F ) weather we have here. The color balance
for fluorescent tubes has gotten MUCH better the last few years, and I
find the daylight balanced ones to be my favorite. And I, too, have them
on multiple switches, but I have a set on one switch that is for the whole
area and some others on switches for specific areas like a workbench.
09-29-2004
posted by Franz
Well, in the intrest of my lazy typing, let me just mention flourescent
lights mounted more than 12 feet from where you'll be working are close to
useless.
The light density of flourescent drops off radicly 10 feet from the
fixture, get a light meter and check it yourself.
There are multiple flourescent outputs, with suffixes to the lamp number
such as CW, WW and D. D is the closest to daylight.
09-30-2004
posted by
Cutter
Quote:
Originally Posted by linngl
I live about 200 miles Northeast of you.
As OReilly says, "name a town, name a town, name a town". At least that's
what I thought he was saying.
But no salesman will call, no bill collectors, no door to door children
selling bad candy. What town? FYI, I grew up at Goodlett, went to school
in Quanah & learned to drink beer at Trash Hill.
__________________
cutter
09-30-2004
posted by
Cutter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman033189
Any tips for digging a whole for the power line?
Don, I have little experience digging a "whole". I did dig a short trench,
with a sharpshooter.
__________________
cutter
09-30-2004
posted by linngl
Cutter that would be Nocona, Tx.
09-30-2004
posted by
Cutter
Quote:
Originally Posted by linngl
Cutter that would be Nocona, Tx.
and LOL. I have a sister that lives at Lake Nocona.
__________________
cutter
09-30-2004
posted by linngl
I've spent many hours on the Lake.
I shouldn't mention this but an old science fiction literature class at
A&M won't let me. I think Hal9000 asked "Dr. Chandra, will I dream?"
09-30-2004
posted by Sberry
Cutter, I just got DSL so I was thumbing back thru this thread. It appears
you ran a 3 conductor plus ground feed to this new building? Or did you
run just 3 conductor?
09-30-2004
posted by fatfrank
Quote:
Originally Posted by cutter
FYI, I grew up at Goodlett, went to school in Quanah & learned to drink
beer at Trash Hill.
Thats pretty funny, I lived in Childress from 6th grade thru 10th grade
and I also drank some beer at trash hill, and under the bridge at the
Pease(sp?) river crossing.
09-30-2004
posted by
Cutter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sberry27
Cutter, I just got DSL so I was thumbing back thru this thread. It appears
you ran a 3 conductor plus ground feed to this new building? Or did you
run just 3 conductor?
3 conducter plus ground.
__________________
cutter
09-30-2004
posted by Sberry
I assume you seperated the neutral and the ground conductors in the shop
panel? You must have a seperate equipment ground bar I couldnt see in the
picture?
09-30-2004
posted by
Cutter
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatfrank
Thats pretty funny, I lived in Childress from 6th grade thru 10th grade
and I also drank some beer at trash hill, and under the bridge at the
Pease(sp?) river crossing.
Childress is where my Sis & her husband lived until they retired.
Quote:
Originally Posted by linngl
I think Hal9000 asked "Dr. Chandra, will I dream?"
Someone else mentioned that a while back but can I help it if the guy
couldn't spell his own name?
__________________
cutter
09-30-2004
posted by
Cutter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sberry27
I assume you seperated the neutral and the ground conductors in the shop
panel? You must have a seperate equipment ground bar I couldnt see in the
picture?
Okay. I had a long talk with a retired elctrican about that yesterday. The
original wiring to my house was not grounded (earth ground, I mean); I
drove the stake Monday, still need to pick up some #6 bare & an add-on
bussbar. I know there is a small roll of bare ground somewhere in my old
shop, can't find it.
__________________
cutter
09-30-2004
posted by john pen
Why is ground wire bare ?
__________________
miller thunderbolt and an old chop saw...
Im just here for the beer and chips...
Hoping some day to be on the "list"....
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